Degree Required?

[Abdul Wahid Tanner]

How many technical or engineering jobs these days still require degrees? For what purpose? Are the degrees more for the convenience of the hiring company to be used to filter out unqualified candidates? Or are there valid reasons why a degree is necessary?

When I was a manager at Microsoft, I knew of a person who was a real superstar and actually received the highest review rating I had personally witnessed beyond anybody else - even the principal engineers. This person actually had only a high school diploma but that was never an issue and probably never will be. The only real measures that employees should be judged by are how well they actually do their job and contribute to the team. Never once when we were deciding who performed well did we even mention school.

Now imagine what a huge loss this would be for a company to turn away a candidate such as this because of a lack of a piece of paper with some fancy writing on it. This person almost single-handedly contributed to one of Microsoft's most important and critical products. This is the type of contribution that can only be measured in billions of dollars. You can't say that degree holders learn more, because it probably took even more effort and determination to learn the required skills for this engineer position than what a big university provides.

I also remember when I personally graduated from DeVry and my friends and I were applying to various companies. We all had degrees. But there was a problem because we got our degrees in 3 years instead of the traditional 4. This was normal at DeVry because we did not waste our summers by going home or getting some temporary work while waiting for school to start up again in the fall. In fact, just based on credit hours, we had more than a 4 year university. And yet, I remember some of us who dared to apply to NASA all getting the same letter stating that our degrees were somehow inferior and were not accepted. That was many years ago and I don't know if the rules are still the same.

So my question to this group that I would like to discuss is what is the purpose of degrees? Going back to Microsoft again, when we interviewed a candidate, we never relied on the resume or the letters in the degree. In fact, I would sometimes say when interviewing a person with a PHD that I would not hold that against them. What we looked for were many things, but we always took the time and effort to see for ourselves if the person had the skills necessary not only to do the job but to continue to grow and be a good fit. I'm sure that is how our superstars without degrees managed to slip through the cracks and have the opportunity to create so much value.

I am very interested to hear what you all have to say on this topic because I am about to launch a continuous self-study course for 13-18 year old teenagers who want to learn electronics to get hands-on, practical, and applied skills in electronics so they can get a better job. This will potentially be an alternate path to college or at the very least provide a jump-start on a solid beginning.

[Burton Lee]

Its much easier to become a top software engineer without university training, than, for example, a propulsion engineer...or for most deep hardware positions. For hardware-related positions, having at least a Bachelor's, and ideally a Masters or PhD, will continue to be quite important for entry-level and advanced positions.

[Abdul Wahid Tanner]

Burton, thanks for the insight and I would like to ask you a little more about your reply. Why do you think software engineering is easier to learn on your own or on the job vs. hardware engineering? For hardware, a person can actually see tangible results that can be picked up and held in hand. Sure, software has outputs that can be displayed on the screen or paper but it is much harder to visualize the paths of execution than it is say the path that a hinged bracket takes as it swings around.

Is it the cost of experimentation that is at the root of this discrepancy? In other words, all you need to start programming is a computer and some development software. The rest is all virtual. But for hardware, you need to keep buying electronic components, screws, metal, tools, even drill bits. And I know how expensive just the screws can get! I recently built a 3D printer and probably spent more money on the nuts and bolts than anything else. I can see how the cost would be an inhibiting factor for a person to be able to self learn hardware engineering but that still is not related to having a degree. So is there something else?

[David I. Luther]

Here's a PHD fed up rocket scientist: http://www.kiosek.com/oberth/

"In 1922 Oberth’s doctoral thesis on rocketry was rejected. He later described his reaction: “I refrained from writing another one, thinking to myself: Never mind, I will prove that I am able to become a greater scientist than some of you, even without the title of doctor.” He continued: “In the United States, I am often addressed as a doctor. I should like to point out, however, that I am not such and shall never think of becoming one.” And on education he had this to say: “Our educational system is like an automobile which has strong rear lights, brightly illuminating the past. But looking forward things are barely discernible.” "

[Jason Held]

A lot of it could be the way people learn, rather than whether they went through a formal education. Some people simply prefer (and excel) in a self learning environment. A formal education does provide structure though, for those who need it. There's also advantages of peer review and mentoring, which is key regardless of formality. It's fine to take away the formality in engineering, as long as there is mentoring.

I agree with Burton that software is a lower barrier than other fields. A lot of it is lower risk and easier/quicker testing. It's easier to find out if your code doesn't work, recode, and re-test. Even in an ISO/MILSPEC field a young software engineer can find and recover from mistakes. Mechanical and (to a lesser degree) electrical engineers the consequences and risks are higher for failure-- bridges fall, airplanes fall from the sky, shuttles explode, space telescopes needing contact lenses....the list goes on. A university degree offers that "warm-fuzzy" feeling to an employer that the person meets some minimal benchmark. It's either that, or a portfolio of past work (self made or otherwise) to get them in the door.